Please respond to the TOK issue raised in David's presentation on Monday: "How does the media shape our vision of the world?" Or perhaps more from a ToK perspective " How can we know whether the media shapes our perspective on the world?"
Discussion Questions:
1 Does anyone have a younger sibling or relative? How can you relate to this knowledge issue?
2 Do you think that children are inherently capable of distinguishing fiction of movies from reality themselves?
3 Would you let your child watch Disney movies?
4 Do you believe that Disney, which has the image of being wholesome child-friendly entertainment, to be capable of influencing its audience with subliminal messages, or are we blowing this out of proportion?
5 Do you consider Disney’s portrayal of female characters misogynistic? How about characters of different race?
6 Do you consider the Disney princesses to be good role models? How about the Disney princes/heroes?
7 If Disney princesses are not the ideal, then what icon should young girls aspire to be?
I believe that the media does indeed shape our perspective of the world. As teenagers we are exposed to the flawless, skinny models that we see in all the fashion magazines, the beautiful and seemingly perfect celebrities on T.V, and so forth. This definitely shapes our idea of perfection and leads us to think that to live a happy and perfect life one must become like these people. However, what we don’t realize is that these models are all airbrushed and are wearing a ton of makeup, these celebrities are eating in an unhealthy and dangerous manner, these “picture-perfect” people are not so perfect after all. In terms of Disney movies, I would definitely let my child watch them because even though children do want to compare themselves to Mulan, Cinderella, and Ariel, they will eventually grow out of this phase just as we all once did. Furthermore, unlike the media today, these cartons are CARTONS! They are fiction, and children do indeed become aware of that. Nonetheless, one must take into account that it definitely shapes their perceptions and view of certain aspects of life. In terms of the Disney’s portrayal of female characters, I don’t believe this is misogynistic because even though these women are not really taking control over their lives and end up being saved by a charming prince, these are after all indeed fairy tales for little children. Furthermore, Mulan is a great example of an empowered woman and sets a great example because she impersonates a man and takes her fathers place.
ReplyDeleteOK, FZ I take your point, children are aware that these are fantasy females, but still don't they subconsciously develop ideals of women based on certain criteria promoted in these role models - pretty faces, submissive behavior (Mulan excepted), wanting to be married as the 'happy ending' in life? (even Mulan gets her guy doesn't she?)
DeleteHonestly, I don't necessarily think the Disney Princesses are role models for young girls, neither should they be. I think their just pretty princesses who get everything they want, which is something everyone dreams of. Again, like FZ said, they're just cartoons, and that's all they should be. People shouldn't expect their kids to learn anything from them and if they do, then they're doing their parenting wrong. Also, I specifically recall my childhood in which I used to adore Pokemon and Power Rangers and outgrew that fantasy. That's what kids do, they imagine, dream, and then when their confronted with the cold, dark outside world get past those dreams. All in all, my point is that we should the kids imagine and create, because if one thing's for sure, in a few years they'll stop wanting to be princesses or superheroes.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ghali when saying that Disney Princesses are not supposed to be role models for younger girls, yet lets face it , whether we want it or not a young girl or young boys cannot stop themselves from wanting to be what they watch on TV at such a young age, especialy when seeing how much happiness is portrayed as well as affection given from being the princess. We do outgrow it at a point but some of the mentality portrayed from these movies can last on the long term, but this is just a minor aspect, we have various things shaping our view on the world including culture, family preferences, society, education, religion , as well as media. Media can indeed depict our view on things, but the last time I checked being a DIsney Princess isn't deadly ! These princesses are beautiful, elegant, polite, and each do face some challenges through the plot. DIsney does actualy a good job at campaigning against racism, as we can see that there is a Princess for almost every ethnicity, Asian, African, Indian, Arab, White or Even Redhead, Blonde, Brown hair,Dark Hair. With this diversity people from all around the world can relate to these princesses, as there is a princess for every race. Obviously these princesses will not be portrayed as fat to suit fat or ugly woman just to make some girls feel good about themselves, the princesses show the most accepted image of a pretty girl and that does not mean that everyone who doesn't look like that is ugly. Furthermore although I am no disney princess expert from what I remember the princesses do face some challenges in the plots, for example Cinderella was a hardworking maid, a girl that was hated by her family and disrespected by her sisters that thought they were better than her just because she was adopted, and in the end she is the one who unintentionally gets married to the king showing that everything is possible, that even the most unlucky and tortured girls can be princesses, and for me this is one of the most inspiring plots for girls I've ever seen, what can we ask disney more for, Disney is showing little girls that no matter your social class , you can be THE PRINCESS, and that anyone can be a princess. I am sorry but Disney allowed so many girls to dream, getting rid of these princesses will just shatter the dreams of millions of little girls.
DeleteI DON'T WANT TO BE A PRINCESS though - I don't want my daughter to think marriage will be the solution to all her problems. I don't want girls without skinny waists to feel inadequate and the fact that they come in all races and ethnic types (although I don't see a black princess) is worse because they are offering the same cookie cutter girl in different colours! ps @Ghali - You ARE a power ranger, man!
Delete1 Does anyone have a younger sibling or relative? How can you relate to this knowledge issue?
ReplyDelete--> No younger siblings. MANY younger cousins though. I can see how one would think that these movies take over their brain, but I can account for the fact that children always ultimately outgrow their Disney-phase when they start getting a better grip on reality (through their parents and school)
2 Do you think that children are inherently capable of distinguishing fiction of movies from reality themselves?
--> Children are mostly (or should mostly) be capable of distinguishing fiction from reality, I remember being able to do so since a very early age. Otherwise, if parents see that the child can't make this distinction, they should explain it to him/her.
3 Would you let your child watch Disney movies?
--> YES! I would watch them with my child even!
4 Do you believe that Disney, which has the image of being wholesome child-friendly entertainment, to be capable of influencing its audience with subliminal messages, or are we blowing this out of proportion?
-->BLOWING IT OUT OF PROPORTION. Disney is perhaps THE MOST famous franchise in 20th century history, and they have already charmed billions of people, they would have no incentive to use subliminal messages, because people already buy their products without being "hypnotized" (or whatever the BSers who came up with this call it)
5 Do you consider Disney’s portrayal of female characters misogynistic? How about characters of different race?
--> I definitely do not think Disney portrays its female characters in a misogynistic way. As for characters of different race, Disney has never really been racist (maybe a bit with Aladdin but they fixed the song). Some of the foreign characters are even depicted as more brave and strong-willed than the "white" ones, for instance Mulan or Pocahontas both end up saving their people almost single-handedly.
6 Do you consider the Disney princesses to be good role models? How about the Disney princes/heroes?
-->I wouldn't qualify Disney princes or princesses of role models. They are just figures created by people to make a fun and innovative cartoon to entertain the young ones. The development of the princes' characters is often not even strong enough in order for the audience to truly be able to connect with them. If one WERE to take either one as a role model, I'd say certain princesses are sure to teach children good values (Mulan: bravery, Snow White: patience, Cinderella: dreaming...)
7 If Disney princesses are not the ideal, then what icon should young girls aspire to be?
--> I think the one and only role model a girl should have is her mother. That way, if the mother is screwed up and the child ends up being the same way, then the mother has nobody to blame but herself (instead of using Disney as a scapegoat to cover up her poor education). Also, if the mother is wise and has a lot to teach, then the child would surely benefit more from aspiring to be like the mother than aspiring to be like Cinderella for instance.
Salim... What girl wants to be her mother? Come on... They look around for role models to imitate. This is how we learn (childhood psychological development). We watch others and we imitate them. A child's capacity to learn is phenomenal and they do it without thinking. This is why they can learn multiple languages with perfect pronunciation before the age of 10. What else are they assimilating? what will remain in their subconscious long after they've worked out these cartoon women are just drawings? And then who takes over from the Disney princesses? 'Real' fashion model/movie star females who promote the exact same image. Passive and pretty. What little girl models herself on powerful female characters? And guys? Have you noticed how their role models are all dynamic, active, challenging, strong?
DeleteDisney is meant to be an “escape.” It is a world that is made up to allow people to escape reality and believe in the impossible. To take away that experience from Children, means that you will be taking away their chance to let their imaginations venture, and become dreamers. When Children are young they are not necessarily drawn to these beautiful Disney figures because of what they symbolize, but because they are beautiful and surreal. As adults, we are critical of the Disney movies because we have acquired enough knowledge to evaluate them. Yes, we can argue that there is gender inequality, that the princesses are dangerously beautiful and that there is extreme violence… nevertheless, children have not acquired the fundamental knowledge and awareness to be critical of Disney movies. They are young, and to prevent them from watching these movies, we are robbing them from childhood memories, experiences, and we are robbing them from the only moments in their lives that they don’t have live in reality. They have a life time of realism; there is nothing wrong with a little imagination. Disney movies are not meant to be assessed and evaluated, they are meant to be an escape; stories written for the young soul.
ReplyDelete--- To argue that Disney movies are offensive is hypocritical. We are infuriated by the idea that these movies portray woman as dependent on men, but aren’t women dependent on men? In the 21 century, marriage still is the dream of every little girl… to get married to the love of her life and live happily ever after. There are exceptions, but most women would want to spend their lives with a man who will take care of them. There is nothing wrong with that. Just like the Disney princesses, it is after that the women find who they are and define what makes them special and - that they seek to build a family. The other idea that is touched on is the thought that these women represent an “impossible” beauty. What is wrong with believing in such a beauty? Why would we criticize the beauty of these princesses when women of the 21st century are self-conscious of their self-image? To argue that these Disney characters represent an impossible and UNHEALTHY beauty is insincere. Before we criticize these Disney characters, we should criticize our 21st century perception of beauty. Furthermore we criticize the violence in Disney movies, but what about all the wars that are going on as I speak? How far is Disney from reality? Aren’t we trying to fight to put an end to violence in the real world?
These ideas that could subconsciously infiltrate the minds of impressionable youths are not necessarily deceitful. If anything, they come close to the reality of the 21st century.
I completely agree with you that there is nothing wrong with these movies and that every child has the right to imagining and escaping reality (which, I just want to say doesn't have to be movies, when I was a kid I and my friends built a camp in my garden, and for years, I was the king and directed them around their duties, we played our own movie, so to speak).
DeleteHowever, I think you may perhaps have misunderstood the point David was talking about. People feel that the obsession with beauty and so on in the people of today's world comes about from the media (in this case disney), and that they are thus the problem. They claim we model ourselves after what we see. Also, the entire "Women looking for husbands" thing is criticised because not every woman wants this, and because some people feel that movies like these help in making this the only aspiration of some women. Finally, I would just like to say that in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with disney movies, it is an overreaction and people need to put things into perspective.
Following both of your and basically everyone else's opinion, I as a child who grew up with Disney movies, agree that they are not a negative influence on children and that we are criticizing it for invalid reasons. Sure, the princesses may be ridiculously proportioned in such a way as to portray an unrealistic beauty that we all seem to admire, particularly as children. But to enhance the point that many others have already made, children are meant to dream and be naive. It is the only chance they get to live in a deluded world protected from the harsh realities of the adult world. Disney characters are the same as Santa Claus, and the Tooth fairy. They are fictional characters that make our lives more thrilling.
DeleteI would disagree with the point that Disney is part of the blame for our current obsession with beauty and perfection - we already had preconceived notions of what we consider beautiful. If we went way back to the 18th Century long before Disney, we would see women with tiny hips wearing excruciatingly tight corsets and perfectly curled, long hair, because it was considered beautiful. Disney simply followed our demands for commercial purposes. They did not create our sense of aesthetics, they simply adhered to it to make it more enjoyable to watch. Again, we have to remember they are cartoons - children grow out of it eventually.
@Nadia... I am not anti-marriage,(I am married after all) but I do think it's a problem if this is promoted as the ultimate aspiration for girls, and I think it is, or at least we only just beginning to free ourselves of this perception. @ Maiya... I agree it is a chicken/egg situation in that Disney - and the media - just gives us what we want (what sells) so it is fueling the status quo. As soon as girls begin to want to make more of an impression on the world we get Mulan (who dresses as a man in order to do that, by the way). However, a responsible (ethical) media enterprise, could create role models that would be more interesting. Lets not underestimate the huge brainwashing power of the media. You want people to fight a war? The media can stir them up in about 5 days. You want people to be less racist? You put black people in high profile roles in tv series. It works. Nor do I want to rid children of their fantasy worlds, but as a kid all the children's books I read had boys in the main roles. I grew up thinking only boys got to do stuff and women were the cheerleaders, the emotional back up. It's a real struggle to break out of that mind-set. Now - thank goodness - I can watch tv detective series with female protagonists or (my Danish series right now) a female prime minister. (Of course these are still minority shows) BUT, this is adult style fantasy I can relate to, and what a difference it makes!!!
DeleteI completely agree with Nadia and everyone that replied after. I personally think that Disney is meant to be one path in which children can dream and imagine. The disney princesses all portray this unattainable beauty and some might think that this might negatively shape a childs view of teh world, however, eventally children will get struck by the realities of life and will outgrow it.
ReplyDeleteAside from this fact, I believe that disney actually has a lot of positive things to offer children. Many of the princesses reveal good personal qualities that everyone should try to attain. For example, Mulan shows bravery when she defeats a threat to her country almost on her own and Snow White shows patience when she waits in the coffin. Thus, children can actually learn quite a lot from disney.
I also don't think disney plays much of a role on our perseption of beauty. Like Maiya said, we already have in our minds what we believe is beauty; Disney is just follow what we percieve is beautiful. Personally, I cannot imagine growing up without disney and I don't think that it has affected me in any negative way.
I think you are contradicting yourself a bit, Yassine. First, you say kids know it's only fantasy and they outgrow it to live in the real world. Then you say Disney teaches girls to be brave and patient. As I already said, Mulan is brave in MEN's CLOTHES, and as soon as she gets back to being a girl she finds the perfect guy to marry. All she got was the chance to choose her own husband instead of the one the family picked! Boy - what progress!! And as for patience, stuff patience! Women have suffered because they are taught to endure patiently. Remember, 'Chronicle of a Death Foretold'? The Vicario girls were respected because they had been "brought up to suffer" (sewing, staying in the house, cooking, visiting the sick and never ever complaining).
Delete1 Does anyone have a younger sibling or relative? How can you relate to this knowledge issue?
ReplyDelete- Yes, I do have younger siblings, but they do not seem to be too attracted to superheroes and Disney characters.
2 Do you think that children are inherently capable of distinguishing fiction of movies from reality themselves?
- I believe that children do see the difference, but still might have some hope to reach the perfect flawlessness of some fictional characters.
3 Would you let your child watch Disney movies?
- Yes, I would definitely let my child watch Disney movies, for these will enable his imagination to flourish. I remember watching them too, and I don’t believe that they had a negative impact on me.
4 Do you believe that Disney, which has the image of being wholesome child-friendly entertainment, to be capable of influencing its audience with subliminal messages, or are we blowing this out of proportion?
- Well, there must be a reason to Disney’s use of subliminal messages, and I do believe that it is to influence its audience. However, the question really is; “Are our children really affected by these subliminal messages!?” I don’t believe so. It is hard enough to read the “S” word written with smoke or drops of water, in the Pocahontas movie. However I do believe that the auditory subliminal messages may have a small effect on a child, such as the ones used in Aladdin.
5 Do you consider Disney’s portrayal of female characters misogynistic? How about characters of different race?
- No, I do not consider Disney’s portrayal of female character as misogynistic. Furthermore, Disney was inspired by the different races in the world in order to create its Disney princesses. It did not only focus on a blonde and blue-eyed princess. This would permit people from all around the world to relate to these princesses, and it may be argued that this was implemented for marketing reasons. These characters all look quite attractive, and Disney does not seem to depict the Native American, or red-headed princess in a negative manner. However, Disney did once use racist lyrics in the Aladdin movie, and this led to a lot of criticism.
6 Do you consider the Disney princesses to be good role models? How about the Disney princes/heroes?
- Disney princesses are not good role models due to their exaggerated features and portrayal through the media. They await the prince, or their hero to rescue them and all their major decisions revolve around this superhero. When a young girl comes upon such situations in Disney movies, she may directly conclude that a woman is solely dependant on the man figure, and should wait for her prince in life. This young girl’s dreams will then be crushed when faced by reality.
7 If Disney princesses are not the ideal, then what icon should young girls aspire to be?
- Their mothers.
7 If Disney princesses are not the ideal, then what icon should young girls aspire to be?
DeleteKenza Mouaquit: - Their mothers
EUUH. what if they are orphans ? their father ?
@Kenza in 6 above... It's not just Disney is it? Remember this?
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLF6sAAMb4s
3) Would you let your child watch Disney movies?
ReplyDeleteI don't think these issues would be identified by a 7 years old child, therefore, I think it is not a big deal. Even though, women are in fact portrayed in a way that may differ from reality, I think it fits with Disney's intentions. Why would we put "REALISTIC" women and characters in a world where animals think and speak, where people eat apples and die and where people move with flying carpets? simply because it is a FICTION.
If we had the same characters in a "realistic movie" then it may be controversial, but now I don't see the problem.
Furthermore, If we prevent our children from watching these movies, it may lead to the opposite aim. Since not everyone sees these issues in Disney movies, then these people would probably let their children watch it, while your children are busy reading boring books in which women are VERY realistic. Your children may want to watch as well these movies, then good luck trying to explain this prohibition.
If women were "normal" in Disney movies, some people would probably come up with a reasoning that criticizes these women. What I want to say is, everything can be questioned and criticized.
Othmane, you are missing the point... Power rangers are not boring, are they? They are male fantasy projections. Disney could do the same for girls (tomb raider is the nearest we got to this, but then there were the breast implants). btw Ask yourself why so many women go get breast implants? Is it so they can be better athletes, run faster, or manage companies? Duh!
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